SURPRISE MOTHAFUCKA! College class bait and switch

"PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power" (petarvn) 10/23/2016 at 04:21 • Filed to: None

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Rant after pic. Has to do with gender and sexuality. i’m not trying to offend anyone. i’m just venting about an annoying class, and how it goes against my religious beliefs. read at your own discretion. pic for getting this far.

So, i’m in a college class named “LA: Land of dreams, land of hopelessness” The class is a writing/film analysis course which is (one of the classes which is) a first year requirement class for students. Now, from the title you may assume it’s a class where you watch movies and the write about them, and you’d be right! bu the part no one told any of us students about is that it’s also a gender and sexuality studies course!!! Yay.... As i write this, I’m also writing a paper on Rock Hudson, and his homosexuality/heterosexual portrayal, and you know what? I fucking hate it. I know i’ll probably get flack for this, but i completely dissagree with any notion that teenagers should be encouraged to discuss sexual orientation and gender within the classroom. I think it is a pointless topic to go over in a general studies course, and would feel much more comfortable if it was left to the 4 people who want to actually major in gender studies or whatever.

I just do not see the point in writing an essay about a guy who was gay but in the closet during the 1950's. It’s like writing an essay about about the neuances of a lemon, as comapred to a non-citrus fruit. It has nothing to do with anything relating to the goddamn class, except for the fact that my professor is also a teacher in the gender studies department.

Also, let me add that i am an orthodox christian, and i while i will not judge anyone on their choices or discriminate them for making those choices, i strongly believe that when it comes to gender, it is biologically determined, but that biological root comes directly from god, who created Adam and Eve. He didn’t create Adam, Eve, and something else. he just created a male and a female. Having to write a paper with the precident that i agree with the notion that there are 50+ genders (as i have learned recently that that many do in fact exist) is goddamn infuriating, and i completely dissagree with that concept as a whole.

So my issue is how do i write a convincing paper about a topic that i partly do not believe in, and partly disagree with completely? I don’t fucking know. All i know is that this is the largest crock of shit i’ve ever had the displeasure of throwing money at. Absolutely worthless field and class.

/End rant.

Pic for your time.

If i offended you i’m sorry, and like i said, i do not judge your choices, just because they don’t agree with my beliefs, so long as you don’t force those upon me. Another M-car for your time.

Krieger (@FSKrieger22) > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 04:39

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Studying the (sexual) subtexts of a movie, its characters and the actor portraying them and how it relates to society at the time and society today seems pretty par for the course for me (well, spending several hours reading analyses of Metal Gear Solid 2 does that to you). Especially given the rather large gulf between how the 1950s, at least in the US, was and is portrayed in mass media and how it actually was (not my field of expertise, but I do read).

Or would you have preferred to analyze Zardoz?

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > Krieger (@FSKrieger22) 10/23/2016 at 04:44

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oh it i was writing a paper that compared the views on homosexuality back then to now in movies, that would be okay, because that is taking an unbiased stance on things. What we are being asked to do is figure out a point from a reading entitled “rock hudsons body” which is 25 pages of talking about how he was a hunk in the closet, and how he was portrayed as heterosexual, and then prove that point by using evidence from a movie/ disporve that point. it’s 1:45AM here so sorry if i’m not making sense, i just don’t see the purpose of finding the autor’s point in an article whose whole idea is “he’s gay but hid it” and then compare that to him being heterosexual in a movie. it has no relevance to anything because it deosn’t examine change over time, or anything like that. it’s simply saying “this guy is making point A” then proving point A and then disproving it by using the same source of evidence.

Xyl0c41n3 > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 04:54

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You’re 18 or 19 years old. Yes, you’re a teen, but also an adult, so start acting like one. The class and the topic are perfect for a student like you who seems hellbent on holding fast to your narrow world views. You do realize there are people in your class right now who are gay, right? So you’re saying it’s not ok for them to talk about or study an aspect of their identity and how it was portrayed and discriminated against? All so that you don’t have to feel slightly uncomfortable? Too bad.

Your class is doing exactly what it advertises: teaching you film history. I’m willing to bet you’ll also study how women and POC were discriminated against in mid-century Hollywood. If the syllabus continues on into modern day, you’ll probably also study the whitewashing of characters of color, and the use of POC actors to portray villains while white actors play the heroes.

Guess what? All of that is part of film history. College isn’t supposed to be a cakewalk. Nor is it supposed to be an echo chamber of your limited life experience thus far. It’s supposed to challenge you, what you know, and what you believe. If you’re seriously getting furiously upset because your professor has asked you to examine what is simply reality for a significant portion of the world’s population, then you’ve definitely got a long, LONG way to go.

And sorry, bud, but you are, indeed, judging and discriminating against LGBT people with this little rant of yours. That’s not very Christian of you at all.

-A Christian and daughter of a preacher

DutchieDC2R > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 04:55

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Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 04:56

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Sexuality and gender are a huge topic in film now and have been for a while. Its something id have expected to analyse, as I did throughout my english literature course. Exploring topics such as these in film can help society as a whole think about it and come to terms with it. Regardless of your beliefs these people need to feel comfortable and begrudging tolerance isnt really the way to do that.

That said I probably have a very different mindset, I just got back from a lesbian wedding for example...

Berang > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 04:59

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Assuming you’re wanting to be a writer, any chance to find out more about how people think/work should be exciting, even if you don’t necessarily have anything personal involved in the topic.

I’m surprised though if a required course for 1st years would only be taught by one professor. Maybe you can switch to a different professor if it really bothers you that much.

Krieger (@FSKrieger22) > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 05:02

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Well, he was very much in the closet. Despite the issue that some of his colleagues knew anyway , as well as his agent. Again, seeing how exactly the studios and his agent played up his heterosexual heartthrob status is worth analysis, although I suspect you will need more than movies to prove it.

CRider > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 05:02

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Well frankly, unless you’re studying religion your personal superstitions have no place in a college classroom. A film class studying an actor’s life isn’t unusual, but trying to superimpose your (factually incorrect with regards to human evolution and sexuality) beliefs into it is wrong. If facts make you feel uncomfortable in your faith, maybe college isn’t for you. It’s not a matter of people forcing their beliefs on you, it’s them presenting some facts and you plugging your ears and saying they’re wrong. 

DutchieDC2R > Xyl0c41n3 10/23/2016 at 05:03

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I really wanted to post something as smart as this, but having dealt with smallminded christians (I have been raised catholic myself) too much in the past, I couldnt be bothered and just posted a Family Guy video.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 05:21

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Without getting into the religion or politics part of it, I’d just say that you’re in college. The point of the place is to make you consider your beliefs, expose you to things outside your specific beliefs, and sometimes make you advocate for something against your beliefs.

You’re not going to agree with a lot of things in life, college is the place where they prepare you to handle that. Colleges now are doing students a disservice with the ‘safe spaces’ they’re allowing students to demand when they feel their beliefs have been encroached upon. We’re going to have a whole generation that doesn’t know how to handle having their beliefs challenged.

A little more explanation of exactly what the class is in it’s description might have been nice though, so at least if you went into the class you’d have known what you’re getting in to.

Xyl0c41n3 > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 05:23

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It’s called “passing.” What your professor is asking you to analyze is how Rock Hudson was “straight passing.”

He played lots of leading roles, right? Leading male characters were expected to be stereotypical macho men – strong, muscular, handsome, witty, skilled with women, deep voice, chiseled jaw, emotionally strong/stoic in the face of stress/trauma/etc.

Gay men, on the other hand, are often stereotyped as effeminate, weak, thinner, not physically strong, emotional, have higher pitched voices and softer physical features.

Rock wasn’t like the typical gay stereotype, so he “passed” as straight.

The idea of passing exists in every marginalized population.

Lesbian women can also pass for straight because, for the longest time, lesbians have been stereotyped as butch and masculine. So any lesbian woman who doesn’t fall under that stereotype is straight passing.

Black people with light enough skin and a certain hair texture can be considered to be “white passing.” There’s even a term for it: the paper bag test. If a black person is lighter than the brown of a brown paper bag, then they are generally white passing.

The same is true for Latinos. Many of us have lighter skin, and even blue or green eyes (think Cameron Diaz), so we pass for white. If that’s not enough, we also change our names because a name that sounds too foreign means an actor will be typecast as a POC.

Famous actress and pinup model Rita Hayworth is a Latina. She had to use her mother’s maiden name because she kept hitting brick walls in her professional life under her father’s surname.

Think that shit doesn’t happen today? Just look at Martin and his son Charlie Sheen, whose real surname is Estevez. Emilio Estevez (also Martin Sheen’s son) decided to keep the family surname.

Again, do yourself a favor and get over yourself, get over your pride, get over your fear and realize there is a LOT to learn. You just have to take advantage of the opportunity you’ve been given to do just that.

Berang > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 05:31

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Wait are they asking you prove and disprove a point using a single source?

That’s actually a pretty cool exercise.

Flavien Vidal > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 05:36

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Meh, if you try to be a scenarist/writer and maybe think about working in Hollywood, you better evolve slightly in regard to your opinion about homosexuality lol.

Don’t forget that in this class, you’re the one with “beliefs”. It’s college, you’re not going to be taught about beliefs, faith and similar stuff... You have to study people, their history, what they went through and what their legacy is today.

Your reaction is similar to the christian guy who takes art classes but refuses to draw female nudes. Get over it, and start understanding what the whole class is about. Imagine the reaction of people if a muslim guy were to complain about studying Madame Du Barry or Phryne... You’re being that guy.

Tapas > Krieger (@FSKrieger22) 10/23/2016 at 05:43

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^this.

Also, schools should be the place that challenge all ideas. You may end up finding out your ideas are wrong because they did not survive rational criticisms, or there’s more nuance to things or that your ideas are true.

In fact, if you went to take a religious studies course or study in a seminary, you might come across people who write thesis on how the organized religion’s stance on homosexuality is nothing but hyperbolic interpretation of a sole vague sentence in the bible.

Source: Have friend who studied that and was doing research while we lived in the same city.

Maxima Speed > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 06:39

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I feel you dude. Being a Christian It was pretty weird getting into those discussions in my phsycology class when I’m the only one that doesn’t come from the point of view that it’s biological.

Under_Score > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 06:56

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Major key. But seriously, don’t let the class agitate you too much. Colleges are extremely liberal (students thinking terms like “man” are offensive at some of the more progressive ones), so stuff like your paper are unfortunately bundled with the class. Maybe get involved in a Christian group, Young Republicans, or something that deviates away from the far progressive reach of the college. It’s great to see new perspectives, but sometimes, the colleges take it too far.

wafflesnfalafel > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 06:57

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College stretches your mind, even if it makes folks uncomfortable. Walking a mile in another man’s shoes is a valuable skill even if you don’t agree with them. Honestly, it might be a good opportunity bolster and expand your own opinion rather than simply follow the specific academic instructions from the prof. http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/ Nice M5.

Anon > Krieger (@FSKrieger22) 10/23/2016 at 07:02

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Thumbs up for Zardonz, I had to watch it for my film class!

Maxima Speed > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 07:07

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Honestly what I would do would be to discuss it with your professor. Even if you don’t get along the professor may still be able to give some tips on seeing things the other way, after all if he teaches that other class on it he may be able to get you just enough insight to do the paper. What I did in psych class was, after class I went to my teacher and explained that because I had a different cultural upbringing and experience that it was hard to wrap my head around these totally foreign concepts. Granted I still ended up dropping out of psych and took soci instead.

Anon > Xyl0c41n3 10/23/2016 at 07:30

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I do have a question, is there something wrong with it if someone feels like passing? Not all gay men want to talk with a high pitch voice and not all lesbians want to be butch, some people just want dick, some just want the V, and some want nothing at all, it’s just the way it is. Your sexuality doesn’t control your entire life.

Also what you mentioned about “the paper bag test” frustrated me immensely. We had a guy on our racing team who constantly complained about being told by other black guys that he acted “white” because he light skin, hung out with us (a mostly white group of friends), liked watching anime, and working on cars. I have a black cousin who was adopted by my aunt. When she got to high school she was constantly getting shit about having white parents. So she decided to start hanging out with the “real” black people to try and escape the stigma of having white parents. Well the “real” black people ended up getting her addicted to heroine at 17 and she’s now in juvie. What I’m trying to get to is who gives a flying fuck what people want to do! If people want to act White, Hispanic, Black, or Asian no one should give a shit. People just want to act how they feel comfortable so if someone thinks a black person “passing” as white if that’s how they feel comfortable then they have my permission to shove their opinion where the sun doesn’t shine. Your race or sexuality doesn’t mean jack shit, people shouldn’t be identified by what their “culture” is, they should be identified by what they want to be identified as.

I would like to finish by disclaiming that I do think being effectively forced to take on a culture is shitty and no one should have to do it to advance their career.

Bourbon&JellyBeans > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 07:42

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Oh please don’t tell me that you derive your hypothesis that gender is biological from a religion. Citing a religion as a source of scientific theory is not only misguided, but dangerous.

I think that we need to stop putting ourselves in this or that box.

What people mean when they discuss the “50+” genders is, they don’t believe that they should be held up to the traditionally masculine mold for men or the traditionally feminine mold for women. Is that that hard to understand - that people may not want to be encapsulated in another of society’s boxes?

Batman the Horse > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 07:53

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College is not a safe space for medieval opinions. Better get used to feeling uncomfortable.

yamahog > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms 10/23/2016 at 08:01

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That’s not what “safe spaces” are.

yamahog > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 08:34

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So what you’re saying is you would’ve appreciated some sort of content/trigger warning. Got it.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 08:48

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Something about loving thy neighbor, and I don’t remember there being an * with that admonition that allows you to exclude anyone you disagree with.

No one is forcing you to agree with how people may choose to live. But loving the people around you as Christ did means knowing where they come from. So that means studying their perspective and world view. You may still disagree with their choices, but accepting them for who they are is what Christ was all about.

Leadbull > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 08:56

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I sexually identify as an e30.

Danger > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 09:16

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You can’t fathom why a gay actor or the experience of gay people in general are worth talking about?

And gender is not biologically binary. maybe they’ll make you take a biology class too.

Leadbull > Under_Score 10/23/2016 at 09:19

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As a Christian myself, I abhor how closely american Christianity is tied to the Republican Party, anti-progressivism, and anti-intellectualism.

The Bible doesn’t talk a whole lot about politics, but it does tell me that I should be charitable, welcoming, kind to the poor, a steward of our planet (aka “creation”), generally intellectual and thoughtful, and that money should not control me.

From what I’ve seen of the Republican Party, an awful lot of their policies and actions don’t line up with that.

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > yamahog 10/23/2016 at 09:25

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Might not be the literal definition that students ask for but that is pretty much what they are being used as.

wkiernan > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 09:36

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Since you’re studying Los Angeles, you should get yourself a copy of City of Quartz by Mike Davis. It’s very interesting! Davis wrote another book about Los Angeles, entitled Ecology of Fear , which I haven’t read yet.

I’m thinking that if you’re required to produce an essay as classwork, you might want to write your paper from a broader point of view than just a close focus on sexual identity in the age of the closet, i.e. , how does Rock Hudson’s sex-orientation impostiture fit in with the entire mid-century L.A. public mind-set.

yamahog > itranthelasttimeiparkedit 10/23/2016 at 09:38

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According to....?

Because I went to UofM, in what’s fondly referred to as “the people’s republic of Ann Arbor,” I have friends teaching in multiple fine institutions across this country, and a “safe space” is just a description applied to a support group type of environment to encourage minority participation without fear of majority retaliation. For example, a place where LGBT+ students could discuss experiencing discrimination without someone invalidating them.

TL;DR not a description applied to classes, but small support groups that serve as a safe haven from oppression.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 09:51

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It’s almost like, gasp, gender and sexuality are major part of film and film history. In the 1950s, if it got out that Hudson was gay, do you think he’d be the star he was? No. Because back then being gay was considered wrong for the most part.

On top of that, people encourage discussion of gender and sexuality and other things like that among teenagers in classes so maybe they can better understand their feelings and thoughts revolving around that top and hopefully better understand themselves.

Oh also, basically half this post is discriminating and judging people based on their choices. Might wanna read that little Christian book again and read that whole “love your neighbor as yourself” bit. Of which there isn’t an asterisk that leads you to the bottom of the page where it says “unless they don’t line up with your personal beliefs.”

Welcome to adulthood, where everything doesn’t cater to you and sometimes makes you feel uncomfortable. Maybe use this to learn to accept people for who they are.

jimz > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 10:01

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Sounds like it has far more to do with your personal discomfort with the topic than anything else. With the caveat that I don’t know the specifics of the course, part of the reasoning could be to highlight how different Hollywood was decades ago vs. today. “Hollywood” gets dismissed in some circles (*cough*talk radio) as a hotbed of liberal hedonism, but back in those days (Rock Hudson’s) it was very white and exclusionary. If you weren’t a (supposed) straight, chiseled, white leading man or a supporting, squeaky-voiced submissive white woman, you pretty much couldn’t make it. If you were black, you would be lucky to play a stereotype bit part. Asian? Forget it. They’d rather put a goatee and drawn-on arched eyebrows on Sidney Toler and call him “Charlie Chan.” And even if you were white, you had to be the “right kind” of white. And if you weren’t, you had to hide it as best you could. without googling, can you tell me who Louis Feinberg, Jerome Horwitz, and Moses Horwitz were*? How about Amos Mouzyad Yakhoub Kairouz?**  And of course, gay people didn’t exist. no sir.

Also, let me add that i am an orthodox christian, and i while i will not judge anyone on their choices or discriminate them for making those choices, i strongly believe that when it comes to gender, it is biologically determined, but that biological root comes directly from god, who created Adam and Eve.

Well... there are plenty of us who believe that

1) the entire Genesis creation story is an allegory at best, or

2) simply a post hoc fable made up as a story to tell around the fire and passed down orally until someone wrote it down. or

3) none of that happened at all in any way shape or form.

see, the good thing about living in this country is that one of its founding documents says both “you cannot be prevented from practicing your religious beliefs” and “I cannot be compelled to follow yours.”

but the last I can say is this. you’re in University. this is (should be) the last step before you step fully into adult life. You are going to meet gay people. You are going to meet black people. you are going to meet people who have green hair and random metal objects poked through their skin. And (I’m saying this as gently as I can) if you are a Christian, when you encounter someone you may not agree with, you should concentrate more on what Christ taught instead of dredging up a couple of verses from Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

* Larry Fine, Curly Howard, Moe Howard. The Three Stooges.

** Danny Thomas.

jimz > Tapas 10/23/2016 at 10:04

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this guy is my favorite:

fhrblig > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 10:05

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I don’t know, seems like studying an actor who was forced to hide who he was and who he loved fits right in with a class titled “Land of Dreams, Land of Hopelessness”. Be very thankful that you’ve never had to hide that aspect of your life from others. I had to, and it’s hard to express the magnitude of the loneliness and isolation I felt. It would do you some good to explore what he went through.

Conan > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 10:22

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“It is bad when one thing becomes two. One should not look for anything else in the Way of the Samurai. It is the same for anything that is called a Way. If one understands things in this manner, he should be able to hear about all ways and be more and more in accord with his own.”

— Yamamoto Tsunetomo “Hagakure” 1716.

dogisbadob > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 10:38

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ooooo a red E28 M5! I thought they only came in black!

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 11:06

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Yeah, I can see how maybe one unit in the course could be dedicated to actors passing as a sexuality that varies from their own (it seems to be an impressive feat of acting to pretend to be a different core concept than their sexuality, but if it dominates the course then that’s just idiotic.

fhrblig > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 11:13

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One other thing...

i do not judge your choices, just because they don’t agree with my beliefs, so long as you don’t force those upon me.

was preceded by

i completely disagree with any notion that teenagers should be encouraged to discuss sexual orientation and gender within the classroom. I think it is a pointless topic to go over in a general studies course, and would feel much more comfortable if it was left to the 4 people who want to actually major in gender studies or whatever.

So in a nutshell, it sounds like you don’t want someone’s beliefs forced on you but you’re more than comfortable with your beliefs restricting what others are permitted to learn about.

By the way, I don’t think it means you are a bad person, it just means you’re human. Confronting your own double standards forces you to think harder about those things and leads to growth. No one goes through life with the beliefs they had growing up staying completely intact, after all. If that happened we’d never progress as a society.

Flies With Thunderbirds > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 11:36

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Welcome to college pal, get the fuck used to it.

smobgirl > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 11:58

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If Donald Trump managed to minor in anthropology with his beliefs, I’m sure you’ll figure something out.

Maybe you’ll learn something pertaining to the class itself or maybe you’ll just learn how to avoid things that make you uncomfortable, but you’ll get SOMETHING out of this experience. And that’s pretty much what college is about.

Chasaboo > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 12:01

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It’s funny, you think you’re normal, but you’re not. You’re just annoying.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Batman the Horse 10/23/2016 at 12:09

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Beautifully succinct.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Leadbull 10/23/2016 at 12:12

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I’m not even remotely religious but was raised Christian and always took issue with that as well.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > CRider 10/23/2016 at 12:13

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Lol burn

nermal > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 12:50

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...my professor is also a teacher in the gender studies department.

This sums up the issue. The professor is bringing their bias from one course over into another. However, despite that, there is an extremely important life lesson for you, and it has nothing to do with films, writing, gender, sexuality, or anything else:

This person is standing in your way, making it difficult for you to get something you want (eventually, a degree). This will not be the last time you encounter a situation such as this, but it will give you an opportunity to learn how to deal with these obstacles in the future. Do you just shut up, begrudgingly put in the bare minimum effort needed to pass the course, saving your effort for those that you are more interested in? Do you dig your heels in and argue directly to them that this is wrong, and that you shouldn’t have to do it? Do you just drop the class so that you don’t have to deal with it, and make sure you never pick another class with that professor? How about complaining to the head of the department? How about just behaving in class and discussions in the way that the professor wants, bringing up discussion points that they want to hear, writing the paper that they want to see, not the one that you want to write, and thus “excelling” in the course and getting a top grade?

That is the reason why this course is important. It’s not the topic that is the lesson, it’s how you deal with it. Remember, everybody in the room isn’t going to just go away once you are done with school. You’ll either be working with them, for them, they will be working for you, or they will be your customers, or competitors. Figure out how to deal with that now, and you’ll be in much better shape later.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > yamahog 10/23/2016 at 13:05

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Brown University (I’m from RI) has a literal one. If you’re talking about support groups, sure, but I’m talking about an actual room somebody set up with play doh, videos of puppies, coloring books and blankets for people who felt offended by a lecture being given on campus.

yamahog > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms 10/23/2016 at 13:25

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So? Like I said, not an actual classroom environment being “censored.” Just people getting to unwind in a comfortable area. The Horror.

Also:

people who felt offended by a lecture being given on campus.

...like OP? lmao. Even if he availed himself of such a space, he’d still have to come out (pun intended) and do his assignment. I’m not seeing what all the hand-wringing is about.

yamahog > Chasaboo 10/23/2016 at 13:35

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let’s try to keep this constructive please

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > yamahog 10/23/2016 at 13:37

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Because college is about being around people you disagree with and talking about things that aren’t necessarily within your own experience. That’s how you grow. You can shelter yourself from it (I’m not saying you personally, more a cosmic ‘you’), but then you miss a lot of what the world has to offer.

I dunno. You can go to college just to learn skills and get a degree, but if you come out of there without having your world view changed a little, it seems to me like you lost out on a lot of the college experience.

I don’t necessarily care either way. I just find it odd to talk about not wanting to write about something outside your belief system when that’s literally what learning is.

yamahog > nermal 10/23/2016 at 13:39

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Speaking of bias - You seem to have missed the option to “quit whining and actually try to learn something.”

Under_Score > Leadbull 10/23/2016 at 13:44

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I didn’t say he necessarily had to be a conservative Trump supporter. He can, however, join an on-campus faith-based organization that centers on more traditional views if he so desires. Ever since middle school, with FCA each Friday morning, there’s an opportunity for Christians to, well, be Christian. A college should certainly have a Christian club if they have a club for other groups of people.

yamahog > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms 10/23/2016 at 13:45

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We’re on the same page overall. I just don’t find an issue with taking a brief timeout from constant challenge in order to recharge ones’ mental/emotional batteries, so to speak. “I need more time to process this” would be a different attitude than “I don’t believe in this so we shouldn’t have to learn about it” as OP seems to be saying.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > yamahog 10/23/2016 at 13:52

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Yeah, I get what you mean. If people need a certain environment to better help them process what they’ve seen or heard, I can absolutely understand that. Everybody learns differently, and not everybody can take the same amount of a challenge at once. I’m with you there.

And agreed, I’d rather see a ‘I need time with this’ instead of ‘I don’t agree so it shouldn’t be taught to me.’

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > nermal 10/23/2016 at 15:36

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Oh i completely agree, and in class i argue my viewpoints as the teacher wants, but whrm it comes to writing essays, I’d rather have the option to argue the topic from my point of view, and not how the professor sees it.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > fhrblig 10/23/2016 at 15:40

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Let me rephrase that. I don’t believe that students should be made to study sexuality and gender in a general studies course that everyone has to take. I feel like that’s unfair towards us who don’t really care about those issues. Also, i feel like it should have been disclosed that the course will be covering that stuff prior to starting the course, so i could have chosen a different class to take as my college general studies requirement

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > Bourbon&JellyBeans 10/23/2016 at 15:47

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First off, no I’m not drawing off a religious text for scientific proof. The fact of the matter is the vast majority of people are either born with two of the same chromasome, or one X and one Y chromasome. That is scientific fact. Now, my interpretation of this is that anyone who doesn’t fall in to one of these two categories is a scientific anomaly.

And that does not at all go with my views on gender norms. I believe that men and woman, regardless of sexual orientation or color of skin should be equal. But that’s where my belief in true equality ends.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > fhrblig 10/23/2016 at 15:50

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Oh, i know he went through a lot, and I’m not saying that its not worthwhile to study, it is; it is just not something that i feel i should be obligated to write an essay about in a general studies course which was represented as a film analysis class, and not a gender/sexuality studies class

fhrblig > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 16:30

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People not caring or being unwilling to face those issues leads to them being more likely to turn a blind eye to discrimination and to unfair government policies. Have you noticed that lots of people who initially opposed gay marriage or equality for LGBT people but later become supportive say that it was because of a relative that came out? They were willing to completely ignore what was happening, or worse, openly support or promote anti-gay legislation until it actually affected someone they know.

Again, the title of the class fits right in with Rock Hudson’s situation. He wanted to be a star and he was very successful, but it cost him a hell of a lot in his personal life. To remove sexual orientation from a study of his life and career would be to ignore the reasons behind choices he made, how his personal life was affected, and even the circumstances of his death. It’s also dehumanizing.

Discerning > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 16:54

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Bourbon&JellyBeans > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 10/23/2016 at 16:59

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You confuse sex and gender. They’re different things. Sex is determined at birth. There is no naturally occurring instance of “gender.”

Leadbull > Under_Score 10/23/2016 at 18:58

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I think there’s opportunities every day for Christians to be Christian, whether that’s at a church/ministry, or in a gender studies class.

Leadbull > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 10/23/2016 at 19:00

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I know for a fact that it drives people away from Christianity.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Leadbull 10/23/2016 at 19:43

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If you’re keeping score you can count me in that camp. It wasn’t the deciding factor, just one of the first stepping stones. I left church long before I left religion.

Benjamin Rolland > Krieger (@FSKrieger22) 10/23/2016 at 19:55

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THE GUN IS GOOD. THE PENIS IS EVIL.

bhtooefr > Bourbon&JellyBeans 10/23/2016 at 20:00

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To the contrary, there do seem to be some innate brain constructs that correlate with gender identity...

Bourbon&JellyBeans > bhtooefr 10/23/2016 at 20:52

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Show me the brain construct that make one wish to wear feminine clothes? Or masculine clothes for that matter. That shit is made up, much like religion since we’re on that topic as well.

bhtooefr > Bourbon&JellyBeans 10/23/2016 at 21:31

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https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

Bourbon&JellyBeans > bhtooefr 10/24/2016 at 07:08

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I’m now going to repeat myself. Gender is not a naturally occurring phenomenon. Male/female sex organs are naturally occurring. However, gender is a construct. OF COURSE there is something different about the brain of a transgender person as opposed to a cisgender person (our personalities, likes, dislikes, aspirations, desires, etc. all come from the brain). There are differences between the male and female brain and then variations within either group. But the labels we place on the products of these variations are what we call gender. Humans created “being transgender,” for example. In some cultures, there’s no such thing as the binary of “boy and girl.” For instance, in some cultures, young males are considered girls until they reach a certain age.